Wal Mart Remove Self Checkouts

[ClownLoach]

Well, I am all in for strict compliance of Self Check Out policies.

If I disagree with their policy I just go elsewhere.

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

[BillyGr]

If I have to bag my own groceries then I would rather do the whole thing myself so I don't have to guess or run from the payment terminal to the conveyor belt and guess how many bags I might need. I don't even see the labor savings - the full service lanes get backed up as the customer can't bag quickly enough so the cashier has to wait to start the next transaction. And they seem to scan deliberately slow, their UPM couldn't be even close to say Costco or even Ralphs or Albertsons cashiers. Might as well just be bagging as they scan, similar to the configuration at Target where the cashier scans and then drops the item right into the bag under the scanner. The "you bag" aspect of the operation to me still seems like a gimmick and not a real savings for these chains.

But their prices are definitely a lot lower, so I still put up with their BS and stock up on center store items about once a month because they're cheaper than anyone else in town, even Walmart. I can't always buy at Costco because it is just too much for some items that will just sit and eventually spoil.

Or at least do like stores did in the past with that "warehouse" format and had checkouts with two separate belts/output lanes so that the items for customer #1 went on one, and they could then go bag while customer #2 was rung out and their items collected on section #2.

[ClownLoach]

If I have to bag my own groceries then I would rather do the whole thing myself so I don't have to guess or run from the payment terminal to the conveyor belt and guess how many bags I might need. I don't even see the labor savings - the full service lanes get backed up as the customer can't bag quickly enough so the cashier has to wait to start the next transaction. And they seem to scan deliberately slow, their UPM couldn't be even close to say Costco or even Ralphs or Albertsons cashiers. Might as well just be bagging as they scan, similar to the configuration at Target where the cashier scans and then drops the item right into the bag under the scanner. The "you bag" aspect of the operation to me still seems like a gimmick and not a real savings for these chains.

But their prices are definitely a lot lower, so I still put up with their BS and stock up on center store items about once a month because they're cheaper than anyone else in town, even Walmart. I can't always buy at Costco because it is just too much for some items that will just sit and eventually spoil.

Or at least do like stores did in the past with that "warehouse" format and had checkouts with two separate belts/output lanes so that the items for customer #1 went on one, and they could then go bag while customer #2 was rung out and their items collected on section #2.

Winco has the split belts. It doesn't solve the issue. The basket size at Winco is huge. Many customers buying a full cart load. So because you've added the customer bagging that is inefficient there are frequently backups as customer 1 can't possibly finish bagging their large load before customer 2 is done bring rung up, and now both belts are backed up. Sometimes there is enough of a gap to start the next customer 1 at the back of that belt, but now they are totally stuck waiting for the "first" customer 1 to be done. Eventually you see the cashier begin chatting and slowing down which wipes out all the labor savings. Maybe this doesn't happen as much in lower income areas with smaller transactions, but here it's a mess. If they just scanned and bagged at full speed on a Target style checkout lane where the bag is under/next to the scanner they would save on labor. Just throw the bag down that conveyor which takes a second and keep going full speed. Like I said their UPM must be nothing. To be simple if it takes less than 2 minutes to ring the transaction but 4+ minutes to bag it and you've only got two lanes the model breaks.

Unfortunately, Winco also has those terrible old NCR Self Checkout units that constantly have scale issues. For the volumes they're doing, they need a new POS.

[storewanderer]

They are definitely neglecting the credit card readers so that people pay with cash.

Yet they have only 3 cash accepting self checkout units and 4 card only (with these lousy pinpads) self checkouts.

And they've got the self checkout supervisor who watches them like a hawk and will throw you out if you have too many items. It's really annoying. Twice they have walked right up and reached over me to scan their override card, void the transaction, and tell me I have too many items so I need to go to a regular lane. Nobody else does this but Winco.

If I have to bag my own groceries then I would rather do the whole thing myself so I don't have to guess or run from the payment terminal to the conveyor belt and guess how many bags I might need. I don't even see the labor savings - the full service lanes get backed up as the customer can't bag quickly enough so the cashier has to wait to start the next transaction. And they seem to scan deliberately slow, their UPM couldn't be even close to say Costco or even Ralphs or Albertsons cashiers. Might as well just be bagging as they scan, similar to the configuration at Target where the cashier scans and then drops the item right into the bag under the scanner. The "you bag" aspect of the operation to me still seems like a gimmick and not a real savings for these chains.

But their prices are definitely a lot lower, so I still put up with their BS and stock up on center store items about once a month because they're cheaper than anyone else in town, even Walmart. I can't always buy at Costco because it is just too much for some items that will just sit and eventually spoil.

WinCo should put in two payment terminals and have them down at the bagging area so the customer doesn't have to go back and forth. But that would again make "card" easier to use than "cash/check" and I think there is still some sort of anti-card thing going on at WinCo even if it is only passively.

The reason the WinCo cashier scans slowly is due to the POS system. They are scanning as quickly as the POS system and scanner will allow. This is the same system Raleys uses, Save Mart, etc. This is how they have to scan. Save Mart has non-NCR scanners so they do seem to scan a little faster. This NCR system is not good. They could probably upgrade it and get it to move slightly faster, but they don't seem too eager. Plus the double play of NCR register+NCR scanner is maximum pain. One time long ago in a store, I went from PSC scanners to NCR scanners (same registers) and could not believe how much slower we had to scan items with the NCR ones. It was very frustrating.

WinCo has a semi-custom (Cub, but only WinCo still uses this) NCR because it has the "lane A" and "lane B" so the cashier can move between transactions with a single keystroke. The logic on this was primarily for the old days of check writing where the cashier could start scanning the waiting customer's transaction while the customer paying was writing a check. Now that checks are largely dead, they need to figure out a way for two customers to interact each with a pinpad at the same time with a single cashier. Quik Trip knows how to have two customers interact each with their own pinpad at the same time as the single cashier is helping them so obviously this is not an impossible software task.

What WinCo should do is scrap the entire system and go to the old looking system Costco uses. Scan scan scan, fast, and done. That old small keyboard IBM is the fastest and simplest POS system to work with. It isn't "intuitive" with graphics and touch screen garbage, so most IT departments no longer buy it because it is boring and fails the sales pitch. But for a simple scan scan scan and pay set up like WinCo has (no loyalty card, no complex pricing, limited methods of payment accepted) that system would be fine.

[veteran+]

Well, I am all in for strict compliance of Self Check Out policies.

If I disagree with their policy I just go elsewhere.

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

[BillyGr]

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

Of course, trying to find those smart packing baggers is not so easy most places, which is why many people prefer doing that part themselves, so they don't get 30 bags for 50 items and all kinds of other things that tend to go wrong.

[ClownLoach]

Well, I am all in for strict compliance of Self Check Out policies.

If I disagree with their policy I just go elsewhere.

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

You are correct. And I have proven time and time again driving checkout efficiency in a high volume store pays for itself in higher comps, customer surveys, etc. It has a greater impact than any other action I took as a store manager. I fixed front ends and ran them as if it was Disneyland trying to push those customers through like they're getting on a ride. Took on a closure bait store and won manager of the year spending most of my time out on the floor constantly directing the front lanes. And earned a good bonus doing so plus created a lot of jobs fixing that place. Do a better job of taking care of the customer and they'll reward you.

I think the only one that measures performance these days is Costco. I noticed the store I was in last week had replaced the old dry erase board with two large TV sets with hourly performance recognition for the cashiers including their scan rate, transactions per hour and so on live for everyone to see including the customers. They understand time is money not just for the store but also the customer.

[ClownLoach]

Well, I am all in for strict compliance of Self Check Out policies.

If I disagree with their policy I just go elsewhere.

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

Standing in the building earlier, I can verify it says "ABOUT" 15 items.

[storewanderer]

Well, I am all in for strict compliance of Self Check Out policies.

If I disagree with their policy I just go elsewhere.

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

Kroger has used the "about" phrase on Express lane signs for years now; I think it started at Fred Meyer over 20 years ago.

Safeway NorCal has started to impose an item limit on self checkout at "high theft stores." So far one store in Reno and the store in Sparks got put onto this lousy program. The Sparks Store was sent a new ceiling sign that says "About 15 items" and it hangs from the ceiling. The Reno Store was sent signs to place in stand up sign frames that say 15 item limit. I never saw a lot of large transactions using self checkout at these two stores and always get through self checkout quickly at these two stores. I'm waiting for them to try this at the new Reno Store where numerous customers go through self checkout all day with more than 15 items- there will be war with the customers there who will gladly wait in line for self checkout even when the cashiers are idle. I spend more time than I should waiting for self checkout in that store due to all those over 15 item customers using it.

I go to a lot of stores and I just don't see your model being used much anymore. One place I see it used- Stater. At Stater you have EFFICIENT cashiers and EFFICIENT baggers and there is definitely an items per minute standard being tracked there. Some Raleys locations do a good job at having both a cashier and a bagger working but it isn't consistent and they are rather slow (cashier unload checkstands). These other chains I don't often see baggers bagging anymore. At Safeway I sometimes encounter a bagger who is standing down there in bagging position talking to the cashier then the cashier ends up bagging as I am paying. Haven't had a bagger at Smiths in... years.

My view is the most efficient checkout design for grocery is the model that Safeway uses where the cashier scans everything and bagging happens after everything is scanned (or if there is a bagger as the items are being scanned). I always thought the Albertsons model where the cashier bagged each item immediately after scanning was a poor model and not as efficient, also made for poorer bagging. In a store like a Dollar Tree or a CVS the cashier bagging each item immediately after scanning works okay since the transactions are so small.

[veteran+]

Here's the problem: it's not enforced with any level of consistency. The large printed overhead sign says "ABOUT 15 ITEMS" not 15 or less. That's a problem because that is the "policy" and as such using a variable like "ABOUT" leaves it open to interpretation. I had a few bags of produce the second time and they tried to say that the units in each bag count towards the limit. These are weighed items, seriously that is not the program. Of course they didn't have any answer for a bag of bulk nuts, were they going to count each walnut inside and decide that one item was really 102 items when again it is weighed? They just have a overall goal of getting everyone off the self checkout and wasting their time, and they aren't counting. If the basket looks large then they just boot the customer. Nobody is really counting. It is arbitrary and potentially discriminatory.

I'm gonna have to check if there are any signs that say "about". That's truly is ridiculous.

There is NO superior model anywhere than customer unload, trained checker scanning at top speed, trained bagger packing smart!!!! It has been proven over and over again.

It seems there are no performance standards (rings per minute, etc.) anymore, based on what I see checkers doing today.

You are correct. And I have proven time and time again driving checkout efficiency in a high volume store pays for itself in higher comps, customer surveys, etc. It has a greater impact than any other action I took as a store manager. I fixed front ends and ran them as if it was Disneyland trying to push those customers through like they're getting on a ride. Took on a closure bait store and won manager of the year spending most of my time out on the floor constantly directing the front lanes. And earned a good bonus doing so plus created a lot of jobs fixing that place. Do a better job of taking care of the customer and they'll reward you.

I think the only one that measures performance these days is Costco. I noticed the store I was in last week had replaced the old dry erase board with two large TV sets with hourly performance recognition for the cashiers including their scan rate, transactions per hour and so on live for everyone to see including the customers. They understand time is money not just for the store but also the customer.

We must have operated stores, districts and regions like twins separated by distance.

As you attest.......................IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!