Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:15 am
storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:02 am Despite what I saw as declining operations for Whole Foods (which continue in Reno), the stores I go into are as busy as ever. They do not seem as staffed as before, perimeter department standards have literally nosedived. As of late they have done some price cuts. Employee attitude is still good, just harder to get any help with anything in their store.
I believe SoCal, Arizona, New Mexico and West Texas are their own division. So maybe the improvement I'm seeing is just divisional. In fact I see more staffing than I have any time since the activist investors (Jana Funds) forced the sale to Amazon. There were at least a dozen employees working the floor and produce Saturday in Chandler, plus at least that many at perimeter counters combined. Probably 30 people working and I only saw one online order picker. The attitudes are drastically improved in the stores I've visited recently, they have been very bad in the past 5 years plus. There is a drastic overall change for the better.
CA is a single division now- the entire state. The rest of the west is a different single division (OR/WA/NV/AZ/TX/CO/UT/and more). It is set up somewhat oddly now.

Attitude has never been bad in the Reno unit. They are most understaffed on food service and front end. Produce, meat/seafood, have strong staffing.
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:23 am
ClownLoach wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:15 am
storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:02 am Despite what I saw as declining operations for Whole Foods (which continue in Reno), the stores I go into are as busy as ever. They do not seem as staffed as before, perimeter department standards have literally nosedived. As of late they have done some price cuts. Employee attitude is still good, just harder to get any help with anything in their store.
I believe SoCal, Arizona, New Mexico and West Texas are their own division. So maybe the improvement I'm seeing is just divisional. In fact I see more staffing than I have any time since the activist investors (Jana Funds) forced the sale to Amazon. There were at least a dozen employees working the floor and produce Saturday in Chandler, plus at least that many at perimeter counters combined. Probably 30 people working and I only saw one online order picker. The attitudes are drastically improved in the stores I've visited recently, they have been very bad in the past 5 years plus. There is a drastic overall change for the better.
CA is a single division now- the entire state. The rest of the west is a different single division (OR/WA/NV/AZ/TX/CO/UT/and more). It is set up somewhat oddly now.

Attitude has never been bad in the Reno unit. They are most understaffed on food service and front end. Produce, meat/seafood, have strong staffing.
Interesting setup. I missed that change.

https://www.nosh.com/news/2023/whole-fo ... or-brands/
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:39 am
storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:23 am
ClownLoach wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:15 am

I believe SoCal, Arizona, New Mexico and West Texas are their own division. So maybe the improvement I'm seeing is just divisional. In fact I see more staffing than I have any time since the activist investors (Jana Funds) forced the sale to Amazon. There were at least a dozen employees working the floor and produce Saturday in Chandler, plus at least that many at perimeter counters combined. Probably 30 people working and I only saw one online order picker. The attitudes are drastically improved in the stores I've visited recently, they have been very bad in the past 5 years plus. There is a drastic overall change for the better.
CA is a single division now- the entire state. The rest of the west is a different single division (OR/WA/NV/AZ/TX/CO/UT/and more). It is set up somewhat oddly now.

Attitude has never been bad in the Reno unit. They are most understaffed on food service and front end. Produce, meat/seafood, have strong staffing.
Interesting setup. I missed that change.

https://www.nosh.com/news/2023/whole-fo ... or-brands/
I don't really understand why they are set up this way. I fail to understand how it makes any sense to have WA in the same region as TX for ANY reason.

It is also logical that they keep the stores merchandised according to their distribution center instead of according to what region they fall under. But, why not make the distribution centers align with the regions?
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:54 am
ClownLoach wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:39 am
storewanderer wrote: May 31st, 2024, 12:23 am

CA is a single division now- the entire state. The rest of the west is a different single division (OR/WA/NV/AZ/TX/CO/UT/and more). It is set up somewhat oddly now.

Attitude has never been bad in the Reno unit. They are most understaffed on food service and front end. Produce, meat/seafood, have strong staffing.
Interesting setup. I missed that change.

https://www.nosh.com/news/2023/whole-fo ... or-brands/
I don't really understand why they are set up this way. I fail to understand how it makes any sense to have WA in the same region as TX for ANY reason.

It is also logical that they keep the stores merchandised according to their distribution center instead of according to what region they fall under. But, why not make the distribution centers align with the regions?
UNFI still sends them a lot of merchandise. One of the reasons why there were quite a few people working Saturday was that they had a UNFI shipment to put away so about six people were stocking in the aisles.

Sounds like they wanted to reduce the number of divisions and decided to make them all even sized. I do agree California should be it's own division in basically every company due to the unique regulations. I once worked with a company that moved California into the Western US and it became a disaster as the executives had no clue about the many legal requirements such as meal and rest break compliance ("Well they gotta take a lunch sometime, who cares when as long as they go!" "No boss, it doesn't work that way...") . It's like you need a completely separate California headquarters to maintain compliance. Please note I am not criticizing CA here, I am bringing it up because CA has mostly superior worker protections to prevent abuse.

Very surprised they published this as most companies do not provide such transparency into their operations.
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by veteran+ »

The Whole Foods in my area have noticeable improvements in store conditions and pricing seems to be lower.

One thing that has not improved is still NO baggers and of course the horrific parking thing. Oh, and still too many clerks pulling merch for online orders (they are always in the way of shoppers).
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by SamSpade »

Looks like they have some work to do:
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: May 31st, 2024, 9:43 am The Whole Foods in my area have noticeable improvements in store conditions and pricing seems to be lower.

One thing that has not improved is still NO baggers and of course the horrific parking thing. Oh, and still too many clerks pulling merch for online orders (they are always in the way of shoppers).
The problem of Whole Foods in some areas is the e-commerce business is so good that they really need to get a cheap warehouse somewhere and open a fulfillment center, or even just close a older store that needs remodeling... Or just use a incomplete Fresh store as a fulfillment center that won't upset the community or landlord. If done right it could be a curbside pickup only site too. They still have too many smaller stores in the LA County market specifically where their delivery business is too much. Those stores also tend to do what you described and eliminate the bagger, instead spending that payroll on the insurmountable heap of online orders that "Flex" workers can't keep up with. They are actually a victim of their own success and make the experience miserable for their in store customers, thus pushing many to more costly online fulfillment that makes the problem worse.

The problem is that Wall Street has realized that separate fulfillment centers are too costly to operate for brick and mortar retailers, so they'll never support such an expenditure by Amazon. Yet they don't question them paying dead rent for years on end for Fresh stores that haven't opened. And if you recall, the first Fresh stores sat with blacked out glass but hundreds of workers inside picking and packing delivery orders around the clock and seemingly making a ton of money doing it. I argue they did a better job "closed" than open to the public, all my online deliveries during the pandemic from Amazon Fresh were great.
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by reymann »

Amazon Fresh is opening their first NorCal store in Roseville. Can they be the store that Save Mart was supposed to be in NorCal pricing wise? If they are successful in getting into the Sacramento area, they should get aggressive with central valley expansion.
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by ClownLoach »

reymann wrote: August 14th, 2024, 7:05 am Amazon Fresh is opening their first NorCal store in Roseville. Can they be the store that Save Mart was supposed to be in NorCal pricing wise? If they are successful in getting into the Sacramento area, they should get aggressive with central valley expansion.
Don't get your hopes up because you're headed for great disappointment.

The shelf prices are super crazy inflated high. They run a few loss leaders in the ad but not great.

The reason the prices are so high is to cover the high cost of deliveries and curbside pickups which are a higher percentage of their business. The offering is that it's the "same low price" delivered as in store. This has plagued Amazon Fresh since its inception when they did have good pricing only to drive up incredible losses on the delivery. This is why they mothballed stores, delayed stores, canceled stores to stop the bleeding of cash.

It was a meteoric crash as some of these stores opened in 2020 with unbelievable staffing, dozens of highly paid managers recruited from Target and over 300 employees in a converted Toys R Us size store. Then they realized the hard way that they were losing so much on every order that they had to jack up the prices through the roof to immediately stem the bleeding. Those first few stores still did decently well, but then the version 2.0 stores started opening and those were the ones without traditional checkout lanes or dash carts but instead they had the now infamous "just walk out" camera technology. That never worked right from day one and scared away many customers who didn't even know how to enter the store because of the automated security gates. That large second wave of stores bombed hard, and that was what pushed Amazon to halt openings and mothball already built stores to figure out how to fix the mess or liquidate the chain. They had set aside almost a billion dollars to cover liquidation costs last year but it seems they are going to press on with openings now that they have removed the biggest obstacle to sales which is the terrible "Just Walk Out" camera payment system. Now the stores are getting self checkouts and they're bringing back the Dash carts which were fun and worked well, it's actually nice to have a running total on your grocery bill as you shop.

So what they do now is hand out coupons that are only good for in store purchases to bring down the crazy high shelf prices. Pretty much every weekly ad has some sort of coupon like 20% off $50 or more, or $15 off $75 or whatever format.

What they need to do is simply charge more for delivery and lower the shelf prices. They have made progress there and did lower shelf prices slightly when they increased the delivery minimum even for Prime customers, but that only served to piss off those customers who rightfully believe that when they pay more than the cost of a Costco membership for what's advertised as unlimited free shipping that should include the delivery of the groceries.

It is a pain in the butt to try to think in terms of what the prices are after coupon versus before and figure out what is thereby a good deal VS a bad deal.

I do imagine that if they can ever strike the right balance of in store customers to delivery that they could lower prices on the shelf and deliver for the same price and make a profit. But there are a lot of barriers to that, and wait till you see what they don't offer. No service meat or seafood (in most existing stores it is still just covered up with a big canvas). No real bakery other than a few thaw and serve items. A minimal hot and salad bar, less than a quarter of what you'd expect at Whole Foods. I gave up on their deli because I could never get anyone to respond to the call button.

Maybe they'll play with a new pricing model up there. They have been known to do exactly that when they enter a new market. My understanding is every new market they've also played with the assortment and layout, but that too may depend on their access to inventory from whatever distributors they're using. They have had terrible out of stock issues plaguing them since inception that they blame on inability to get prioritized for product like Coke and Pepsi because they're a new business and they are too small right now, I don't really believe that considering one time earlier this year I came in and not one direct store delivery vendor product was in stock except for a few expired breads which made me wonder if they hadn't paid their bills. Right now it is a mess in SoCal but the remodeled stores and larger format stores seem to be doing better. I unfortunately have only one of the small format tests in a closed Rite Aid and the selection is so poor it is a complete joke, but they do generate a lot of clearance constantly changing the assortment trying to figure out what they should carry in a 20K size Fresh store while the rest of the chain is between 30K and 50K+.

What you will realize almost immediately is the entire claim that Kroger and Albertsons make to justify their merger, that Amazon is going to put them both out of business, is a total farce. They're still losing so much money on these crappy stores that they have sites that have been waiting to be opened for almost 4 years now but it is cheaper to pay the rent on the empty building than actually open the doors. I figure that eventually Amazon is going to need a replacement CEO when investors tire of Andy and the new guy will shutter the entire Fresh chain so fast it makes heads spin.

Yeah, that's Amazon Fresh. Good luck with that.
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Re: Amazon Fresh Lowering Prices

Post by reymann »

ClownLoach wrote: August 14th, 2024, 7:30 am
reymann wrote: August 14th, 2024, 7:05 am Amazon Fresh is opening their first NorCal store in Roseville. Can they be the store that Save Mart was supposed to be in NorCal pricing wise? If they are successful in getting into the Sacramento area, they should get aggressive with central valley expansion.
Don't get your hopes up because you're headed for great disappointment.

The shelf prices are super crazy inflated high. They run a few loss leaders in the ad but not great.

The reason the prices are so high is to cover the high cost of deliveries and curbside pickups which are a higher percentage of their business. The offering is that it's the "same low price" delivered as in store. This has plagued Amazon Fresh since its inception when they did have good pricing only to drive up incredible losses on the delivery. This is why they mothballed stores, delayed stores, canceled stores to stop the bleeding of cash.

It was a meteoric crash as some of these stores opened in 2020 with unbelievable staffing, dozens of highly paid managers recruited from Target and over 300 employees in a converted Toys R Us size store. Then they realized the hard way that they were losing so much on every order that they had to jack up the prices through the roof to immediately stem the bleeding. Those first few stores still did decently well, but then the version 2.0 stores started opening and those were the ones without traditional checkout lanes or dash carts but instead they had the now infamous "just walk out" camera technology. That never worked right from day one and scared away many customers who didn't even know how to enter the store because of the automated security gates. That large second wave of stores bombed hard, and that was what pushed Amazon to halt openings and mothball already built stores to figure out how to fix the mess or liquidate the chain. They had set aside almost a billion dollars to cover liquidation costs last year but it seems they are going to press on with openings now that they have removed the biggest obstacle to sales which is the terrible "Just Walk Out" camera payment system. Now the stores are getting self checkouts and they're bringing back the Dash carts which were fun and worked well, it's actually nice to have a running total on your grocery bill as you shop.

So what they do now is hand out coupons that are only good for in store purchases to bring down the crazy high shelf prices. Pretty much every weekly ad has some sort of coupon like 20% off $50 or more, or $15 off $75 or whatever format.

What they need to do is simply charge more for delivery and lower the shelf prices. They have made progress there and did lower shelf prices slightly when they increased the delivery minimum even for Prime customers, but that only served to piss off those customers who rightfully believe that when they pay more than the cost of a Costco membership for what's advertised as unlimited free shipping that should include the delivery of the groceries.

It is a pain in the butt to try to think in terms of what the prices are after coupon versus before and figure out what is thereby a good deal VS a bad deal.

I do imagine that if they can ever strike the right balance of in store customers to delivery that they could lower prices on the shelf and deliver for the same price and make a profit. But there are a lot of barriers to that, and wait till you see what they don't offer. No service meat or seafood (in most existing stores it is still just covered up with a big canvas). No real bakery other than a few thaw and serve items. A minimal hot and salad bar, less than a quarter of what you'd expect at Whole Foods. I gave up on their deli because I could never get anyone to respond to the call button.

Maybe they'll play with a new pricing model up there. They have been known to do exactly that when they enter a new market. My understanding is every new market they've also played with the assortment and layout, but that too may depend on their access to inventory from whatever distributors they're using. They have had terrible out of stock issues plaguing them since inception that they blame on inability to get prioritized for product like Coke and Pepsi because they're a new business and they are too small right now, I don't really believe that considering one time earlier this year I came in and not one direct store delivery vendor product was in stock except for a few expired breads which made me wonder if they hadn't paid their bills. Right now it is a mess in SoCal but the remodeled stores and larger format stores seem to be doing better. I unfortunately have only one of the small format tests in a closed Rite Aid and the selection is so poor it is a complete joke, but they do generate a lot of clearance constantly changing the assortment trying to figure out what they should carry in a 20K size Fresh store while the rest of the chain is between 30K and 50K+.

What you will realize almost immediately is the entire claim that Kroger and Albertsons make to justify their merger, that Amazon is going to put them both out of business, is a total farce. They're still losing so much money on these crappy stores that they have sites that have been waiting to be opened for almost 4 years now but it is cheaper to pay the rent on the empty building than actually open the doors. I figure that eventually Amazon is going to need a replacement CEO when investors tire of Andy and the new guy will shutter the entire Fresh chain so fast it makes heads spin.

Yeah, that's Amazon Fresh. Good luck with that.
You have Safeway who has thrived in the Sacramento area from the influx of bay area transplants who delivers on good service and has an improved reputation. Raley's is another one that is simlar to Safeway but, is more popular among the long time locals and who should look to expand into the affluent parts of Fresno, Clovis, and Visalia. Save Mart who is hanging by a thread and is mediocre at best even in their core markets now. NorCal pricing structure isn't great as it is and parts of the central valley area starving for competitors. From the info I've gathered Amazon could be the next flop in NorCal or could put some more Save Mart stores out of their misery.
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